I’ve never believed in writing a manifesto.
The thing is, I’m always learning, and my perspective is constantly changing, so I have never seen the point.
Every day I wake is a new dawn. Every night I go to sleep I am a different person.
But I’ve been writing for over a year now, and it’s been a while since I’ve touched upon what my original goal was: quiet financial independence.
So, I figure it’s time to update my thoughts.
For a quick recap, I wrote my first post on how I kind of viewed Quiet FI here. It was one of my first write-ups ever, and to be honest, I had no fucking clue what I was doing. Haha!
Can I admit that on this blog? Sure, why not?
Looking back, I pretty much wrote this nice broad reflection because I hadn’t found my voice yet and was worried about criticism. I still stand by it, because I wrote it, but it leans toward the PC side of Kumbaya.
Oh well.
Then a few months later, I kind of started to figure out this blogging thing and hit my stride. I decided why should I give a fuck what anyone thinks and let’s just put out whatever I’m thinking and feeling in the moment.
I know – all the more reckless, irresponsible and risqué. But, ahhhhhh… so much more fun and rewarding. Plus, isn’t that the point of this writing thing? It’s all for me?
So that inspired my second post related to this subject – Duality Will be the Death of FI.
That article was more a rip-roaring response to all the FIRE arrogance I was seeing drowning out the benefits and necessity of choice. You can think and live your life however you want, which I wholeheartedly promote and support, but I think there also needs to be a certain amount of humility and respect towards all other walks and visions of life. This was a reminder that there is no such thing as a right or wrong answer to mortality – only that which you choose to live.
So, both of those posts were pretty early on in my blogging career – career? Can I even say that? Hahaha. I don’t know, it just seemed to fit right there. How about “experiment” instead? Yes, I think I’ll go with that. My blogging experiment, case closed.
Now, back to the task at hand.
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I was driving to Phoenix from LA for work the other day, it’s about a 6-hour trip – and quite a forlorn and despondent stretch once you hit Palm Springs all the way until the craggy and Saguaro-speckled dusty outskirts of “The Valley of the Sun.” I never thought I’d be saying this, but I miss flying. Driving blows… haha. I can’t get work done when I’m behind the wheel. Although, as soon as I start flying again regularly, I know I’ll change my tune back to – I hate flying!
Yet sitting there, watching the changing landscape whipping by my windshield like scenes from another world as the tires hummed and kissed the heat-scorched black pavement. It dawned on me that geography, or the landscape, is a perfect analogy for life. As we travel down this road of searching and belonging, sometimes we are challenged (mountains to climb), we have ups and downs (hills and ravines), we experience deep depressions and grief (barren deserts and artic tundra), or we’re happy and content (empty beaches and tropical islands) and at other times we feel alive (dense forests and fauna) or calm and complete (lakes and oceans) or restless and journeying (a river and rapids – isn’t that what we are? A living river, just all individual streams of consciousness flowing through reality).
Ahhhhh, sometimes I get off track.
However, it had been a while since I could really let my mind wander and zone out. It felt good. Neurons sparking, gears cranking in that mechanical beast of my imagination. Sitting there detached and contemplative; allowing my subconscious to slowly crawl up my spine like a fettered prisoner climbing to freedom one precarious handhold at a time.
So, I wondered… I postulated… I disconnected. And I thought about, do I still believe in quiet financial independence? What has and hasn’t changed with all these new interactions with other talented FIRE writers? Have my goals shifted?
To be honest, after more than a year of writing, I’m not sure how I feel about FIRE. In my eyes, it’s definitely not a movement (I’m not going to expand on this point here, an upcoming post will explore this take in detail shortly), but it does have some redeeming qualities. Yet it seems that it’s growth in popularity mirrors its stark polarization.
I personally, think of FI more as a framework. It’s a specific mentality to be used when assessing decisions on an individual basis. Once you start moving beyond this, into the live-all, end-all mode of fanatism, now there’s a different goal rising to the forefront – marketing and selling.
And as the original voices of the “movement” or more aptly, “segment of the personal finance industry” have matured, it seems they’ve never been more eager to take advantage and cash in that golden lottery ticket of their first mover status. I can’t think of a single popular FIRE blog, podcast or more accurately defined, “media company” that is not trying to monetize me in some shape or form, through either advertising, affiliate links, online courses, eBooks, subscriptions, services or coaching.
I understand that is life and the nature of supply and demand.
And to be clear, I have no issue with monetization. My issue is with transparency and the refusal to acknowledge that it changes the relationship with the reader. I have no ill will towards any of these successful personal finance and lifestyle gurus. (I type that with a heavy hand. Isn’t the first rule of gurudom that there are no gurus? Haha.)
But it does make me sad to watch it unfold.
Which it shouldn’t at all. When you approach the situation from a point of logic, none of this should matter in the least bit. But when I approach it from the human element – filtered through feelings, emotions and passion – I’d be lying if I didn’t say it disappoints me. But that’s my problem, me projecting my own values and opinions on the rest of the world, which is a dangerous proposition to undertake.
Nonetheless, I used to enjoy watching as an interested bystander from the shadows rather than being turned into a customer. Because now our relationship has changed. All those I had once admired, now prefer to have me further fund their FIRE journey rather than helping me with mine.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m not some purist that FIRE is this holy bastion of life essence. It’s not. It’s simply a tool. How powerful of a tool depends on you, your values and how you want to shape your life.
Yet, what I think troubles me the most is the newcomer. Someone who doesn’t know anything about personal finance and stumbles onto this scene, what would benefit them most? And my gut tells me that the popular FIRE blogs would be more counterproductive to the beginner’s journey. There are just so many hidden agendas and manipulative selling techniques that it’s even hard for an experienced veteran to tell the difference sometimes.
What is authenticity and what is a gimmick? The lines are becoming increasingly blurred and that isn’t a good thing.
And that does not sit well with me.
As a miniscule voice within this community, I don’t have a good answer for the newcomer. How would I recommend that they go about building their wealth quietly?
Well, if you have an internet connection and a computer, really that’s all you need. There is so much free content out there. Comment on blogs, ask for help, and hopefully this community will point you in the right direction, without opening your pocketbook.
So much I’ve learned, in such little time. And this FI framework has pushed me to improve an already well-balanced lifestyle (post addiction that is). I’ve been blessed to find some amazing voices and opinions that come from very different walks of life. And I love that. I love the diversity. I love being challenged and disagreeing respectfully. There’s a lot of class out there in these bold writers that share a personal piece of themselves one post at a time in this digitalized world.
A lot of people also complain that FIRE is only white tech dudes, but those aren’t the voices I hear.
There’s still so much to discover… so much to explore… so much to offer.
And that’s what I try to do…
Discreetly carry on. Watching. Waiting. Observing. Listening. Reading. Flowing into one day after the next like a leaf tranquilly floating down a stream.
I think at this point, my mindset for quiet financial independence is this: Fun-Progress-Growth-Experiment-Learning (more to come on this).
Getting to where I want to go will never be easy.
We are creatures of comparison. For better or worse, what we see around us, influences us the greatest. We are not immune to bystander pressure nor outside authority.
Nonetheless, while the world keeps turning, I continue to do my thing…
Regarding and perceiving quietly. Helping where I can. Simplifying any unnecessary complications in my life. Trying to live more lightly and freely. Making the most of what I have. Being of service. Practicing sanguine equanimity. Understanding the transience of what I currently hold in my hands. Remembering that gratitude can always trump desire. And being confident in my decisions, not their outcomes.
I need to remind myself that it’s okay to not have the answers.
I’ll leave you with a Rainer Maria Rilke quote:
“Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
Live the questions themselves… quietly.
Enjoy the process of digging down into deeper depths within yourself and apply what you’ve learned daily from staring into that half-collapsed mine shaft of the past.
Because there is a cost to waiting, and everyone pays the price differently.
-Q-FI
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How has your view of FIRE changed over time? Or if it hasn’t, why do you think that is the case? Do you like the direction that it’s moving?
I enjoyed this article. A very solid perspective. Of course my views on FIRE and an example to newbs has been published on my site. Overall, I say not much has changed. I’ve always viewed FI as a tool to help enable the life you’d truly like to live and not much, if anything has altered during the process from pre to post-FI. What I really enjoy is following the stories of others, like you, the emerge and take shape with each and every post.
Thanks Mr. Fate – glad it resonated with you. In the short time I’ve followed you, you have always been a very consistent and grounded presence. I thank you for that. Also quick to add constructive criticism when warranted since you’ve already eclipsed the horizon that so many of us still seek. Thanks for reading and being a great mentor to so many of us.
And to add on a side note, thanks for continuing to write from the post FI perspective. So many other bloggers fall off once the goal is met, and you continue to pump out superb content. Love following your story and continued adventures as well.
I enjoyed this one Q-FI.
Forgive me for being naïve, but isn’t the “FIRE movement” the collective name for the customers?
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but isn’t the whole point of “getting the word out”, “gaining exposure in mainstream media”, and so on about channelling ever more civilians into the sales funnel? More punters to attend residential retreats, enrol in courses, buy books, start PF blogs, and so on.
The early retirement part is the shiny lure used to bait the hook. Something that looks appealing at first glance, but upon reflection may result in a suboptimal outcome for many.
Meanwhile, the financial independence part is just the current marketing label for sound financial discipline and striking a balance between enjoying today with funding the future.
Yes, you are naive Indeedably… hahaha. J/K. No, no naïveté at all on your part. I love how you always cut through all the bullshit right to the point.
You know, the funny thing is, I read your comment, and even though your sentiments are my exact same thoughts, and I agree with all of it, I still felt a little uncomfortable hearing my own thoughts stated so bluntly by you. Which, is so bizarre to me. It’s like I’ve become so sensitized to tip toeing around “the movement,” or any kind of criticism that even when I hear the truth, I still pause.
It’s pretty scary to admit that. I’m losing my edge.
But you’re spot on. As soon as I hear the word, “movement,” I’m waiting for the sales pitch to follow. Practicing basic financial discipline is not some remarkable feat that will change the world.
Glad you enjoyed it bud – I love reading your weekly posts. Keep it up.
“ Practicing basic financial discipline is not some remarkable feat that will change the world.”
On this we disagree ;-). It changes everything for the individual, improves their world. Not revolutionary in the sense that we burn everything down or behead the aristocracy, but once seen, the benefits of those simple habits cannot be unseen and there is no turning back.
Only thing is, those things really are few and simple.
The whole point is for the individual to actually get better with money, not for them to purchase the illusion of control by spending it on FIRE merchandising and repackaged content that is widely available for free.
That is the big contradiction, the conflict of interest at the heart of it all.
Hahaha… this is getting fun. I’d actually argue that we still do agree. The clarification being “their” world vs. “the” world. You just happen to be more of an optimist than I.
I concur that basic financial discipline can be a remarkable feat to change an individual’s world – hence “their” world, as you mention. My lazy generalization was assuming the limited chances of this ever happening en masse in any kind of realistic scale – hence “the” world. I had already built in the pessimistic assumption of failure. But if you can change enough individuals, then sure, you have a stab at improving the spinning sphere that we inhabit.
On a random British side note, I was talking to my sister tonight who lived in London for five years and has multiple citizenships now (US, UK and Canada). She is about to get her second vaccine and her London friends were calling it the “jab.” “Have you gotten your jab already?” I loved it. You brits always have such better names and sense of humor for things than Americans. Hahaha.
Great post Q-FI. I’ve been think the same as of late. One of my former favorite FIRE podcasts is now unlistenable to me because they’ve turned so commercial trying to sell things to the listener. Such a shame that it’s gone that way.
I try to see the FIRE scene as a glass half full. At its core, it’s a self improvement niche. Its so enticing and it definitely betters people’s lives. But like most self improvement scenes, there’s going to be those making a living off of those who are easy prey. It’s a sad reality.
My view on FIRE is evolving. I think this is probably the process for most people pursuing FI. There’s only so much needed before it’s wash, rinse, repeat in regards to saving and investing. Maybe slight refining here and there. But the fundamentals are pretty basic. The interesting and best part is reading and listening to people actively living the process. This is where I learn the most…from the stories and the wisdom of those who’ve lived a little bit of life and are willing to share it.
You’re spot on Noel. After the basics, it’s exactly what you say: wash, rinse, repeat and live within your means. Nothing is rocket science.
I’m the same as you that it’s the stories that capture me and keep me reading people’s blogs. The basics really aren’t that interesting to write about (or read), it’s the humanity and relatable struggles intertwined with elation that draw us in.
Thanks for the comment and your perspective my man!
To be honest, if it weren’t for the few blogs I really enjoy reading (yours included) and the occasional tips I pick up from ones that catch my eye as I scroll through Twitter, I’d be done with the FIRE movement. Too much has been turned into for-profit, bragging, etc. I’m very much a capitalist and support people earning money from their blogs and all, but there’s also a point at which some of it is just draining money from the very pockets of those who need it most. Some of it is also downright misleading, particularly much of the real estate information (I know because it’s taken my brother a decade to amass his properties and build his business and that’s his full-time job. His mentors are worth $20 million+ and none of their businesses amassed as easily as many in that space would have you believe either.)
One of my friends took a FIRE blogger’s class. I read the course “content.” It sounded devoid of anything useful. Sure enough, it was. Afterwards, my friend created her own group through social media to engage with others on similar FI(RE) paths and found her free group much more useful and informative.
I don’t mind ads on the blogs I support. In fact, I’m excited when my fellow bloggers make a few bucks from their work. They’re taking the time and making the effort to publish regularly, so why not? But I’m also sick of all the monetizing, preaching, etc.
Like you, my path and mindset continues to evolve. I’m glad I found this movement when I did – it gave me exactly the tools I needed and forced me to focus and make some better choices that have really paid off, but I also found within a year that some of the lifestyle choices were too restrictive for me. That said, I’ve taken away some really great lessons and have met some awesome people, though I highly doubt I’ll ever pay for another conference again. Maybe…we’ll see. But I’m not overly anxious to do so. I guess it depends where it is and who’s attending.
On another note, I ENVY your roadtrip (even if it was for work) and ability to see something different!!!!! I’m glad your drive prompted some interesting thoughts. Thank you for sharing them here!
Great comment and insight Katie. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I always love hearing your take on things.
Once again, you and I are pretty similar. I started reading a range of blogs, but the more I got into it, I’m only down to a select few I keep up with, 3-5 maybe (you included, which you already know – and basically the few who comment here regularly). I’ve been meaning to write a post on that – someday… but writing time has been hard to come by lately.
It’s like Indeedably said, the “FIRE Movement” is the name for its customers. Good points on the real estate with your brother and that course your friend took. I’ve always wondered about those courses, what the hell they actually put in them. The steps for sound investing are pretty simple and few.
And the road trip… well – it was actually more depressing than fun, so don’t be so envious. Hahaha – but you can keep imagining it was grand in your mind if that helps!
Yes, I got out, but you’re masked up and avoiding people at the gas station. For food, you go through the drive-thru and then eat alone in your car. You arrive at the hotel and digitally check-in with no human interaction. The next day I go into an empty office for a socially distanced meeting and then drive back alone. Not really that exciting, but more of a reminder of the dire and isolated times we live in.
But, I guess you could say technically it was a road trip and I got to see a little scenery. I should dwell on the positives.
You really have my favorite bloggers commenting on this post. I liked it too, but I’m the odd Boomer blogger who has no ads, courses, links and not even vaguely worried about SEO. I just pay all the costs on my site because they don’t amount to much and I like to write about my experiences sometime. Somebody needs to express that work can be fun. That the corporate world can be exciting and fulfilling and can make you wealthy if you can reign in lifestyle inflation. That you don’t necessarily have to have a side gig or make money on the internet if your career is working out great. I’m not the only one expressing that but it is pretty rare and that motivates me to hang around. That and the fact that my small group of readers are impossibly kind and encouraging. And great prose is inspiring, and you laid out some great prose here!
Thanks for the prose compliment Steveark.
It’s great you commented, because you are actually on my list of blogs to catch up on. Believe it or not, I have had your site open in one of my browser tabs for the past month, but haven’t gotten to it yet. Hahaha. And that’s all on me getting sidetracked. You give some great insight and executive level advice. So, just know I’ll be commenting at some point in February.
For the all the points you mention above, you’re probably one of my favorite commenters because our backgrounds have been such polar opposites and you always remind me that there are so many different ways to experience happiness.
And I agree, that a voice like yours needs to be out there. Because there are a ton of positives from corporate America as well. I get sidetracked a lot with my frustrations and vent more on the negatives, but I make a good salary, have great benefits, can take care of my family and am engaged in meaningful work. But there also just happen to be some other things that I’d like to be doing more.
I think one of the unfortunate side effects of FIRE, is that it attracts a lot of frustrated and unhappy people. Hence, if you’re happy and love your job, why do you even need FIRE? These people tend to blame corporate America or their job as the culprit, when in reality they are the ones responsible for their life decisions. I think that’s why the community is so skewed toward side hustles and anti-traditional careers. It bugs me when only one mode of thinking is accepted when there are so many other possibilities that can work just as well.
Good stuff Steveark and thanks for stopping by.
hey q. i just went back and read your “duality” post and that was a really good one. anyone using absolutes really grinds my gears, as you might imagine. i much prefer to read the way i try to write: this is what i did and here is how it worked out. or….this is what we’re trying and hoping to achieve – stay tuned for how well it works or fails.
i have an audience much like yours and most of our readers already have a great idea what the hell they’re doing with the nuts and bolts of saving and investing. i really wish some less experienced readers would come across my stuff instead of just consuming “i retired at 30 kind of stuff.” there is a lot of life experience that can’t be extrapolated. it’s not the young bloggers’ fault but the years haven’t passed yet!
i never wanted to join any club that would have me as a member and that includes the FIRE club. independent is the way to go for me. i’m close to making my first 100 bucks from google ads and can’t wait to buy something frivolous after 300 posts and 3 years work. i think i’ll have steak and some oysters.
Glad you liked the “Duality” post – that was an early zinger in the Q-FI backlog when covered wagons still existed instead of Tesla. Haha. Yeah, you and I are on the exact same page with, this is what I do, like it or hate it. Figure out what works for you. And absolutes drive me insane as well.
I know what you mean, nothing against being young, but you do lack the experience regardless.
Maybe you just tipped the Google Ads sweet spot… now the scrilla will come raking in! Hahaha. Steak and oysters sounds pretty nice right about now. Congrats on the first hundo and may the reaping’s only increase!
Thanks for the comment Freddy.
I’ve noticed that FIRE blogs can fall into two camps. Those that try to market to newbies and make a lot of money, and those that are aimed at a smaller community of consistent readers (usually fellow bloggers).
Like you said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to run a blog as a business, or even trying to make just enough to pay the hosting costs each year. Having said that, I do think a blog loses something when it becomes work, and the reader becomes a customer/sales target. I guess that could be a reason why I don’t really follow the bigger blogs anymore.
Personally, blogging is just a great way to interact with other like-minded people with similar interests in investing/philosophy. (I say philosophy because, realistically, the “how” of Fi is easy – earn more, spend less, invest the rest. But the realisation that most bloggers seem to undergo is that putting off life until you’ve saved a £million is pointless and a waste of a good life! Or at least, those are the blogs that I tend to read, ha).
That pretty much sums up my own evolving view of FIRE. When I first heard the term, I thought, “great, work flat out, save up loads of money, and then I can retire and start living!” Then I realised that doesn’t make any sense. Of course, save money consistently, but why not enjoy life now, rather than waiting 10-20 years? So now I’m taking a much more relaxed approach. I certainly want to ultimately achieve “FI,” but I won’t bust a gut over it. It’ll happen when it happens, hopefully as part of a balanced, enjoyable life. (ironic, considering my chosen blog name. I sometimes think, with hindsight, that I should’ve chosen something else, with no mention of “RE”!)
Thanks for stopping by and chiming in Dr. FIRE. It’s always good to have a Dr. in the house – financial that is. Haha.
I love what you say: “investing/philosophy.” Really that’s it. Take away the math and it’s just one huge philosophical debate on how to live your life and spend your time. And once we find a few good voices that we like, respect and enjoy, we latch on to them. Like you, those interactions have been priceless for me.
My blogging evolution has been pretty similar to yours as well. I got pretty gung ho at first, then the wife reeled me in, and reminded me of some shared life goals. Now I’m chilling and we hit it when we hit it.
Gotta live life now, right?
Great comment bud and thanks for sharing.
Love that Rilke quote – has been on my mind most years since I was a teenager, which makes me think it has some real staying power. We’re all learning how to be patient in one way or another, and FI is only one of those places. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for reading and commenting FraidyCat. Yes, that Rilke quote is a good one that I would concur has staying power. FI kind of reminds me of that Lennon quote, or whoever said it, “Life is what happens when you’re busy making other plans.” Patience is what happens when you’re busy making other FI plans… haha.
Thanks for sharing your kind and motivating words. I really enjoyed reading the article. Being stuck in a home loan for a long time, it sometimes becomes tiresome to think about repaying such a huge amount.
Glad you enjoyed it Himanshu. Maybe if you feel stuck in that home loan look at some other options to try to improve your situation or outlook. Maybe downsizing to reduce some of the debt or any other life changes like increasing income/cashflow that might make that huge amount not seem quite so burdensome. Whenever I feel stuck, I try to focus on the areas I control and can work on to paint the situation in a more positive light.
Best of luck with the mortgage and thanks for the comment.