It took me a little while to come to this conclusion, well, more than a little while, but I’ve finally made up my mind. No matter how hard I try, I will never understand what some people consider to be FIRE.
And making this proclamation, really doesn’t matter in the least bit. Who the hell needs a definition of FIRE anyway? Sure as fuck not me.
Yet, it’s more that I’m surprised that I finally reached this point. I like to consider myself pretty open-minded, but even I can be relatively stumped. I had thought that what I was considering to be a wide gambit in my mind, that could encompass even the most creative bending of FI limitations, was enough. But I’ll be the first to admit that I was wrong.
FIRE can mean anything to anyone at any time.
When I first began writing on this blog almost a year ago, this sentence might have bothered me. I was still in my FI righteousness throes. I hadn’t grown up in my FI years yet so to speak, or put on my FI big boy pants – these are the phases that matter… these are the definitions… I know what’s up in FI… blah blah blah.
I even put FI in the name of my blog for crying out loud! Which in retrospect, I really wish I hadn’t. Because once you get past most of the basics in FI, talking about financial independence can get really boring very fast. It’s the stories that draw us in and entertain us, not the FI concepts. But FI is what inspired me to start writing, and since I didn’t know anything about blogs at that time, this is the experiment I’m stuck with.
(One quick piece of advice, if you’re starting a new blog, don’t base your name off all the “start a new blog” advice. Just pick a cool name and that’s all you need. If you build it, they will come. Well… most likely not, but it always seems cool to say that.)
Podcasts seem to be the unintentional truth serum for Bloggers.
Maybe you disagree with this statement, but it’s what I’ve found to be true. The more FI podcasts I listen to, the more the truth wiggles it way to the surface from the safety of the internet shadows.
I’ll just throw out the two most recent examples I heard last week to give you a taste about what I’m talking about.
- The individual spouse FIRE plan – that debt isn’t mine syndrome.
The first blogger is young and on their way to FI in a few more years. Yet, as it was revealed on the podcast, they are married to a doctor who still has a shit-ton of medical debt. But the blogger doesn’t consider this debt theirs and only their spouses. So, for the sake of marketing their blog, they ignore the debt and never once discuss it.
Okay, maybe there’s a prenup involved, some side contract, who the fuck cares. But I found it interesting that they are married, in a relationship, but in their view of FIRE, they can reach FIRE on their own without their spouse.
Well, that’s interesting. I don’t think my wife would let me classify her debt, as only her debt and I can go reach FI on my own and say peace out… hahaha. Sounds like a good recipe for divorce, but hey, to each their own.
- If you can be claimed as a dependent, then you are already retired syndrome.
The second blogger is even better and probably why I’m even writing this article. They are an older blogger (only in FI years) and have already deemed themselves retired to be a stay at home parent to raise their child. Very commendable I might add, before the definition turned comical.
Yet, as the podcast interview goes on, the host asks the blogger about their spouse and the blogger replies that the spouse is still working because they are not financially independent, so one of them has to work. I stopped the podcast right there, because I thought I must have heard them wrong. But nope, that was the case. This person blogs as someone who retired young to raise a child, yet they are really just a stay at home parent being supported by their spouse. Once again, hey more power to you. But I gotta admit, even I find this one hell of a stretch.
And if the retirement police decided to heckle this person, I’d probably agree with them. Not being financially independent and being supported by your spouse doesn’t quite cut it for me, especially if you’re claiming this on a popular blog. I guess under this definition, any dependent, being a kid or whoever, would also classify as being retired.
I caught myself almost giving my neighbor’s two-year-old a high five the other day since under this blogger’s logic they had already FIRE’d. Good for you kiddo! Must be nice waltzing through life, I thought to myself. And maybe my time machine quip the other day to reach FIRE in my mother’s womb wasn’t so far from the truth? Hahaha.
Furthermore, there’s really no deep take away from this post. My point is, if you try to hold to some all-expansive notion of what FIRE is, you’ll probably end up going insane. You can’t do it. People will keep on blowing your mind, and for me personally, I keep getting thoroughly impressed by the ever-evolving definitions/criteria that people use to justify their FIRE. And damn, they are becoming even more entertaining with each new month.
But my real question should be, why do these things bother me so much?
I mean, let’s be honest. The majority of FIRE bloggers/aspirants are overeducated privileged Caucasians who are arguing about money problems, that aren’t really money problems on the internet. None of it matters one bit.
Yet a lot of these people still get under my skin so easily? And my addiction history tells me, the answer is because of me. I’m allowing my perspective to drift and paying attention to the wrong things. Let people be as they may. Enjoy the good things they offer and ignore the rest. The only thing I can control is how I react.
So, in conclusion, I wrote a previous satire in which I bashed the retirement police, but the more I tend to learn about FI bloggers’ lives behind the screen, the less annoyed I am with the retirement police crusades. Sure, they are obsessive, trite, vindictive and borderline psychotic at times, but who knows, maybe they are right?
Who would have thought? A FI blog actually contemplating the validity of the retirement police? Is this what the world has come to? Hahahaha.
Yes, my friends. It has. Just like you never judge a book by its cover, you never fully trust a FIRE blogger’s definition of FIRE.
-Q-FI
—
What’s the most outrageous definition or standard of FIRE that you have ever heard or come across? Please share because I know there are some gems out there that haven’t graced my ears yet.
ha. i wrote a post early on claiming to be a proud fire fraud. never was much a joiner or identifier with groups or labels anyhow. it reminds me that “we’re all independent” as long as you agree with every single principle like vtsax is the only way to wealth. the stories make the sites worthwhile.
Hahahaha… I love that – “a proud fire fraud”. Yeah, it’s funny how much it doesn’t matter, yet a lot of people take it so seriously. Eventually there will probably be FIRE coaches/consultants to solely explain to people what kind of FIRE they are. =)
And you’re spot on with the “we’re all independent” take.
I enjoyed this, my wife retired from teaching after nine years to be a stay at home mom for our three kids. That was 33 years ago. I kept working until I reached 60, even though we were financially independent, and then some, for maybe a decade prior to my retiring. Then the day I retired I started consulting one day a week and made $100k each of the last five years doing that small amount of work. I know several bloggers who are stay at home parents with spouses who work full time jobs outside the home. That’s just like my wife but she never considered herself retired early. And I earn six figures so am I retired, when I only work 8 hours a week? And I retired at 60, I thought that was early for a boomer, I just enjoyed work too much to quit earlier. So did I fire? I also inherited seven figures a few years before retirement. I was already FI by then, but does the fact that I received a windfall disqualify me as FI? Plus now I’m approaching normal full retirement age according to Social Security, so if I was ever early retired do I lose that label because I aged out of it? So many questions without answers. At least I did name my blog ambiguously, Slightly early retirement!
Yep, it can get pretty wild once you dive down the never-ending rabbit hole of definitions. Usually it doesn’t matter to me at all, but then I’ll hear some crazy off the wall definition from a different universe and I’ll wade back into the debate.
Look at it this way, you qualify for like 5 different definitions of FIRE between your wife and you! Hahahaha.
Wow, you have quite a story! Maybe it’s our culture’s need to label everything in order to create an identity and find acceptance within a group that so many people assign themselves the FI(RE) label. Personally, I don’t need labels. I just want to reach the point where I don’t need to ever worry about money and can choose any job I like, regardless of what it’s paying. I don’t believe I’ll stop working once I reach FI, but I want flexibility within whatever job I choose to work.
I concur and am right there with you. Happiness and freedom are the metrics that transcend trivial labels.
This is a good one. For me ‘Financially Independent’ means that you are not dependent on any external source of income beyond yourself forever (and also anyone else who is legally included on your tax return like spouse/dependents). Like Steve above, it does not preclude making $ externally for ‘gravy’ since you can already cover your own nut. Early retirement to me means retiring, at least a few years, prior to both a) any eligibility for Social Security (62) and your designated SS retirement age (67 for me). Whatevs tho. That’s my definition.
To be frank, the folks in the examples above are, by any reasonable definition, “Fire Frauds” as Freddy puts it. It’s the same as saying you’re a beacon of frugality when you spend over $60K a year. That makes you a sham in my book and is likely the reason why no one’s ever asked me to participate in a podcast.
In all candor, I too, will also publicly confess my eternal shame, regret and idiocy at giving my site such as shite name by including the word ‘FIRE’ in it. I’ve regretted within the 1st 90 days. Like the dudes in ‘Green Day,’ I’m forever stuck with a dildonic moniker. Oh well, as least I’m legitimately FI though, right?
P.S. I’d be curious to know what podcasts these are?
I feel like ‘FIRE definitions’ are almost becoming like the rent vs buy debate. Everybody gets fired up and has an opinion (no pun intended). I’m pretty much the same overall definition as you – if you have to work or one spouse does, then you probably aren’t FI. At least that’s what I’m shooting for, total and complete financial independent freedom! And like you and Steveark say, if you want to work beyond that good for you. At least it’s optional.
BTW would love to hear you on a podcast… hahaha. That would be some good shit.
The podcasts are ChooseFI and Earn and Invest. Overall good podcasts and chill dudes, but my one critique would be they don’t question anything. Someone says some crazy shit and they just smile and nod – kind of like the whole FI community don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. It’s okay to question things and have different opinions.
The FIRE community are so quick to label anyone the police that calls them out. No one dare argue with a prominent blogger or you’re just a hater! As you say though, a lot of the community do deserve the cuffs as they are selling a lie and it diminishes the whole movement. Your two year old neighbour story gave me an idea for my daughter to start her own blog. Cheers
I agree and wish there was more dialogue. But I guess that is kind of the online world and social media in general. Healthy debate just doesn’t exist.
Yes, start your daughter’s blog…. FIRE’d at 2! Hahaha.
This is a good post. Did you find this thought process accelerated when you started blogging? Twitter hasn’t helped either. I am almost more motivated to work for my employer than ever and I have been off podcast several months.
“I even put FI in the name of my blog for crying out loud!”
Almost went this route at well, not knowing there are millions of blogs out there. My wife convinced me to put the healthcare tilt on it.
Not only accelerated, but I probably wouldn’t even be aware of the FI community if I didn’t blog. And Twitter is nuts. That’s the only social media I do for interaction, but man, some of the opinions and shaming on there is insane. I try to limit it as much as I can.
You made the right decision in not putting that acronym in your blog. Hahaha. But we learn from our mistakes. If I ever start another blog I’m all the wiser. Hopefully…