When you’ve been married to someone for a long time or attached to a partner, in essence they become a part of you. You’re able to pick up on subtle nuances by feel rather than the naked eye. You’ll never know everything – that’s reserved only for the clairvoyant or touched on high – but mostly, it’s two separate bodies entwined in a combined reality.
We share the good times.
And we share the pain.
I had been watching the drama of my wife’s job play out over the past several years like some Lifetime made-for-TV movie (yeah, it was that bad). Always wondering when it would end. It would have to end. It couldn’t continue like this, yet whenever I thought she was close to leaving, she’d keep going back like the victim in an abusive relationship.
Which it was. Abusive and illegal. The kind of malevolent and invasive toxicity that seeps into your skin and leaves a stain on the soul.
It was hard to watch. It was hard to experience. It would weigh on me daily.
And even though we had numerous conversations that she could leave her job at any time – we’d adapt and were fortunate to have savings, an impeccable balance sheet and come from a strong financial place of means. I still couldn’t help but beat myself up over it.
Why didn’t I make more money? Wasn’t I the breadwinner? Wasn’t I more capable of rescuing my spouse from unnecessary abuse? Isn’t this why we had a strong balance sheet? To avoid toxicity and negative life situations just like this? Where had I failed as a husband?
Yet it was her decision.
It was complicated.
And I supported her 100% when and where I could.
Because no matter how much you care for someone, we each live our own lives. We each make the decisions for ourselves. No one can force us to do anything, no matter how important or imperative we feel that change is necessary.
Having a front row seat to my significant other’s unhealthy work relationship, finally made me wonder…
Often when we discuss FI we talk about ourselves. That’s obvious and natural. Unless it is a couple’s blog, we are each proselytizing about our own freedom. We’re obsessed with it as we should be, basking in its glory like a successful general on campaign and lining up our possibilities with the unbridled fervor of the saved, because this blog is our own voice, our own persona, our own shared reality with the online community.
But the power of FI isn’t exclusive only to us. The freedom doesn’t have to be our own. We can keep the sacrifice and use the freedom for another.
What happens if you could use FI to save someone else? What happens when your own FI journey shifts from fighting for your own freedom, to rescuing another’s?
When it comes to trends in the FI community, I’m probably the last person to know what is going on nor make any conscious effort to care. Besides the relatively few blogs I try to comment on regularly (been falling hopelessly behind lately), I’m stuck in my own little bubble and have little desire nor time to venture into more diverse offerings or wade into deeper waters, which I believe I’ve always been straightforward and transparent about.
Although I like to proclaim myself omniscient on this blog for entertainment purposes, my reach is rather limited.
However, when I did go down the FI podcast rabbit hole a few years back, I remember a common trend among spouses/partners on the road to FI that had stuck out in mind: very rarely would they ever leave the work force at the same time.
Now, maybe one of the spouses/partners loved their job and wanted to keep working, but more often than not, I’d attribute the differences in job exit timing to sacrifice. Maybe one person stayed in their career longer to keep medical benefits, maybe they were the higher earner, maybe the timing wasn’t right, maybe fear was attached to staying, maybe one person wanted to try the lifestyle first and was worried how they’d adapt.
My point being, in most situations, couples didn’t FIRE at the same time. Usually, one spouse would keep working for a certain timeline for whatever reasons, but essentially providing the freedom for another, no matter how short that transition time was.
And I’m not saying that being single is any easier. Because it’s not. That route has its own challenges and pitfalls. However, I would propose that in one sense it is simpler. There is only you. One mind, one experience, one single lifetime of memories making the decisions.
When you combine two people into the equation – planning, dreaming, compromising and executing. You’ve just expanded the possibilities for diversion in an almost unquantifiable amount.
Because now we have two separate lived realities to account for. It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been together, or how well you think you know each other; these are still two different lives… two different sets of genetics with altering physical limitations, two different emotional make ups, two different personalities to process feelings, two different intelligences, two different pasts, two different parenting styles, two different sets of capabilities and two different thought processes.
The more I thought about this, the more I realized what separate worlds both my wife and I lived in. When we were each working, I’d spend most of my waking hours traversing a corporate landscape filled with smoke and mirrors, while she’d brave a toxic work environment in a medical office. Some things similar on the surface, but below it, lingering, differences as stark as night and day.
When we’d come home each evening, we’d try to decompress and connect. But what I see now, is our thinking we were on the same page was more of an illusion. The truth was that the greatest bulk of our shared lives was lying next to each other, eyes closed side by side in a bed asleep, rather than owning and sharing our time, wakeful and energetic in the daylight. For the most part, we might as well have been operating in two separate universes.
Which in some sense, we were.
Now don’t’ get me wrong, we’ve put a tremendous amount of effort into our relationship since I had my own stumbles in 2016 and live a full and prosperous life. Nothing has been put on hold while we maximize the time we have.
However, now that my wife has finally left her job, and I’m still working from home (although the perk is fleeting); our shared time has improved.
We’re working towards our goals and slowly moving closer to a reality of our choosing.
Sure, I’m still frustrated, and struggle being shackled to a corporate existence. But that will always be me in any setting. Shunning authority, craving authenticity, fighting triviality.
But isn’t one freedom, better than nothing?
I don’t mind the sacrifice anymore. I enjoy watching one of us own our time. The other dominos will fall into place when they are meant to. We will continue casting our decisions like a line into the sea, waiting and watching expectantly for which undetermined outcome will be pulled to the surface.
Future paths branching out as numerous as the limbs on a tree.
And in essence, that’s exactly what FI is about: improving your lived possibilities. Providing incremental growth expansion. In its simplest form: freedom, all the different shades and versions one can dream of in a lifetime… so when using that analogy, when seeing the periphery as important as the middle, why not include in that musing reverie…
A loss of the self.
A gift finally worth giving.
If not immediate freedom for me, then why not freedom for another?
-Q-FI
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Has your FI journey ever touched upon the theme of sacrifice and providing not only freedom for yourself, but the freedom for another? Maybe allowing a spouse or partner to step away from work earlier or choose an alternative lifestyle.
Something else to consider. There is significant evidence that males whose wife stay home with kids experience a significant pay bump. We won’t comment on if that should be the way it is, just that it is.
My wife chose to stop working except part time consulting 4 years ago. Had we not had our stuff together financially that would not have been a jump we could have risked. Today my pay is nearly double what it was when she pulled the plug.. life is too short to let one you love toils at a job they despise.
That’s an interesting consideration FTF, I had never actually heard that before, that a working male supporting a family was paid more. I take it there were studies that showed these statistics? It’s always cool to see what new tid bits I learn from others sharing. Very interesting indeed.
Yeah, having your financial shit in order just gives you so much more flexibility. Very cool you and your wife were able to adjust your lives and have her step down from the grind of full time work.
Very well said: “life is too short to let one you love toil at a job they despise.”
BTW… you’re due for a new post. I’m curious to hear what you’ve been up to while being so quiet lately? =)
Here is one such study. https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/april-2002/for-love-or-money-why-married-men-make-more
Have a post written but not posted. Struggling with some foster care and life issues so just haven’t gotten it up yet. It’s coming.
One more https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-daddy-penalty-men-with-stayathome-wives-earn-higher-salaries-and-get-promoted-more-quickly-research-suggests-jane-mcloughlin-reports-1444575.html%3famp
Sorry to hear about those struggles. I figured there were some valid reasons eating up your time, was hoping they were more positive rather than negative though. Hang in there.
Thanks for sharing these studies!
The thing with noble sacrifice is the only way it works is if you are doing it for yourself, not for the rescuee.
Which is fine. Generous even.
Except that knowledge needs to be enough in and of itself. There can’t be any desire for medals, trophies, or adulation. Even an expectation of acknowledgement or a thank you is problematic and potentially heading for a lifetime of disappointment.
Why? Because the subject of the saviour routine probably didn’t ask to be rescued. Didn’t demand it. Didn’t expect it. Are possibly unaware it happened at all.
In fact, they may even be pissed off that (1) the saviour felt they needed saving in the first place, and (2) that the saviour may have initiated the rescue unbidden, taking away the rescuee’s ability to decide for themselves.
Definitely not saying that is occurring in the Q-FI household, only that relationships tend to work better as a partnership with clear communications and working towards collective and mutually beneficial goals. If one partner feels like they are assuming a burden, there is a danger that in time that evolves into feeling like they are doing more than their fair share. That the rescuee is ungrateful or not pulling their weight.
Interesting take Indeedably and I always love getting your perspective on things.
Just me, but I don’t see why sacrifice can’t be a combination of both doing it for yourself as well as the resucee? I think the reasons can be more complex and nuanced than a zero sum game.
If the relationship is unhealthy, then I get those savior or resentment issues backfiring or throwing gasoline on an already raging fire. Feeling like you are a burden or someone isn’t pulling their weight probably won’t last in the long run and can easily develop into the seeds of ruin.
I couldn’t agree more with you that relationships should be a partnership and clear communication is necessary. My wife’s case was more about my relief rather than rescue, and giving her the space to work through her own issues while providing that extra support financially.
It’s always difficult watching someone you love struggle. But with the right communication and desire on both sides to put in the effort, we can work through almost anything.
True altruism, of any kind, is both beautiful and rare. And always laudable.
“FI is about improving your lived possibilities.” Fantastic!
Usually the more focus we put on helping others, and make things less about ourselves, the happier we are.
Glad that line resonated with you and safe travels MF!
Cool topic. I enjoyed the paragraph that starts with: “When we’d come home each evening, we’d try to decompress and connect.” What truth there is in these few lines!
My wife had the choice just a few years ago to become a stay at home mom. We’d discussed doing this early on in our relationship prior to kids and I thought this would be the plan. Finally, when I went to another company, my new salary was suddenly large enough that she could quit and we wouldn’t be financially impacted. But she chose to keep working. This was the tougher option (in my view), as our lives are more hectic with both of us working trying to squeeze in a few hours together for chores and kids at night. Each decision has benefits and cons, but the point is that we weren’t forced to make a choice. She wanted to work, not because we had to to make ends meet, but because she enjoyed her work.
This is what marriage is about. Supporting each other through the ups and downs. It’s a great thing and admirable. Definitely a benefit of having a solid FI foundation. And what Indeedably says is also key. After all…happy wife happy life, in my humble opinion.
You’re spot on that marriage is about support and compromise. Smooth out the ups and downs as best you can and always remember you are a team.
We also had to make that hard decision if my wife was going to keep working or be a stay at home mom. Like your wife, my wife also loves working. That was kind of why she stayed so long in the toxic job, she loved what she did and her patients, but her coworkers and doctor were the toxic parts. She felt like she’d be abandoning her patients if she left. But when it finally got bad enough, she realized there was no choice but to leave.
Plus, my wife basically carried us when I was in detox and rehab. So this is kind of my chance to let her take a break and see how the stay at home mom thing goes. Who knows, if it doesn’t work out she can always get a new job and we can figure out day care. Financially, it was kind of a wash for us, her working or spending on daycare so I think this is the right move.
Like you mention, both decisions have benefits and cons. We’ll just see where this next path takes us.
Thanks for sharing what you guys did with childcare. It always helps getting others perspective and thought process. And to be honest, we have no fucking clue what we’re doing… hahaha. Just going to jump into it and see what happens. =)
Man, what a generous gift! I hope your wife is beginning to pull herself together and finding great relief after leaving such a toxic work environment. But kudos to you for gifting her with the freedom to walk away!
Your observation about couples walking away from work at different times within our community is correct, though I hadn’t thought much about it. Not everyone is ready to walk away at the same time, kind of like Retire By 40 and his wife. I know a local FIRE couple who retired pretty closely to one another, but even my parents retired far apart. My dad’s career wrapped up much earlier than my mom’s, but they were also trying to force him out to bring in someone cheaper. I think he was also burned out and miserable whereas my mom wasn’t. Fortunately, their financial ducks were in a row, so it was a big deal for my dad to retire well before traditional retirement age, but I think he missed having that purpose, though not the constraint on his time.
Anyway, good for you and your wife! I’m glad you’re finding more time to connect with each other. And I hope you don’t have to return to the office any time soon!
Thanks Katie. She carried my ass when I was broken and in rehab, so I more look at this as my opportunity to step up when she’s going through a tough transition. That’s really the point of a relationship in my eyes. We shift carrying the weight for who is the stronger in the moment. Share it evenly when you can, communicate, don’t worry about tit for tat, and the trust that the other will step up and carry you when you need it most.
There has to be some form of sacrifice on both sides for any relationship to work in the long term. And she’ll be busy as a stay at home mom, so it’s not like I’m some saint here… hahahaha. Though of course that’s what I tell her. =)
Plus, it’s been nice for each of us to share more time together. I hope I have some hybrid work model in the future as well to spend more time bonding with a child.
Regarding your parents, I believe we each learn a lot by observing what happens to others we are closest to. You probably gleaned some hidden truths by watching each of them work through their own process toward retirement. Hopefully it provides some context and knowledge that will help the future you.
i remember when we met mrs. smidlap had a lot more going for her than i did. she had a J.O.B. she liked in the music business and definitely earned more money than me. oh, and she had just bought the house we live in today too. so, when it came time to step up and accept a job working on a swing shift i did so, figuring i would have enough seniority in a couple of years to work normal daylight hours. well, 12 years later i finally got the straight day gig. i can tell you we didn’t always see that much of one another during those 12 years. thankfully neither of us are very needy and have our own activities and friends. those 12 hour shifts were really brutal, but i made a lot of dough (relatively) and when her job dried up and went away in ’17 we were in a similar position where she didn’t need to look for full time work. it was similar to your situation where the money was in order.
now she works part-time the past year or two but might stop altogether soon. it feels pretty good having made the sacrifices to provide those options. i can assuredly say that if we weren’t newly married i would not have taken or kept that kind of job for that length of time. it’s tough to coordinate two people working for sure.
Your story too Freddy, sums up what it’s all about. Those that can work together and adapt in their relationship, usually stay together.
When that money is in order, there’s just less bullshit you have to put up with and have that flexibility sitting in your back pocket to make large life changes if necessary. Even if changes aren’t made, there’s still a lot of comfort in knowing that other options exist.
And I agree, it feels pretty damn good when you finally see that sacrifice paying off. I’m still waiting to see when you pull that final plug and turn the Smidlap de Chateau into a Buffalo sommelier… haha.
It’s interesting to look at the individuals in a FI-seeking couple and think about how each path tends to progress on its own. I’m glad you guys were able to reach the current arrangement, and hopefully your wife is growing into the new role.
My wife has been pushing me to quit for a couple years now. She has to work full-time for at least 3 more years (per my previous comment on loan forgiveness), and we could live on one salary. I’ve struggled with the decision; sometimes I worry that it’s too early to stop saving, sometimes I worry that I’ll have an existential crisis once I’m no longer working. Being a fully-remote worker now makes our lives easier, because I can take care of errands and house chores during the day, and live with kids isn’t as hectic as it was prior to our move. I’m still strongly leaning toward pulling the plug in the next year or so, but it doesn’t feel as urgent as it once did. It’s good to know that I have 100% of my wife’s support, either way. That matters the most.
You’re living it right now Adam. Balance. Compromise. Raising kids. Two different careers. Student loans. When to exit. That’s the challenge of it all, working through tall of these complexities and realizing the best route, or constantly shifting that route to adapt. I think it’s easy for blogs to lump people together and forget how unique each of our individual situations will be. There are similar overarching themes, but also extremely personal values that need to be vetted.
Quit when you’re ready. At least to me, no point in pulling the plug if you aren’t going to enjoy it. Obviously always listen to your spouse’s input, but if a WFH scenario has changed things for you, given you more flexibility, give it a little more time. Figuring out when enough is enough is also part of the riddle.
Being able to WFH for me has opened my eyes this past year, that maybe some form of hybrid model might be an option for me in future as well at the right company or working for the right boss.
All the things you struggle with are 100% normal. People might act like they have their shit together or write with a supreme confidence, but there will always be doubt.
Like you mention, the most important part is you and your wife communicate and support each other. With that structure in place, you guys will always be able to figure things out.
Interesting article. Married couples mostly have the same goals and FI should be one but the timing may be different or the path not agreed upon I think.
Thanks for reading and commenting Dividend Power.
That’s pretty cool. My wife took off 2 years after each of our children were born (3 yrs) and she’s a high earner. No regrets. I joke with her that I should be able to retire 6 years earlier (maybe it’s not a joke).
3 boys (damn iPhone)
Autocorrect can always be a bitch… haha. No prob w/ ever taking time off. I’m looking forward to the day I get to join her. One is better than none.
I really like how you’ve acknowledged the individualism inherent to the people in a relationship—their own desires, goals, and things they find important…while simultaneously relishing in what makes relationships great—the togetherness, unification, and shared intention.
“The truth was that the greatest bulk of our shared lives was lying next to each other, eyes closed side by side in a bed asleep, rather than owning and sharing our time, wakeful and energetic in the daylight.”
That struck a chord for me. It is, perhaps, the key thing that drove me (personally) toward FI all those years ago. I didn’t understand what I was working for—to spend a few hours a day doing what I actually wanted to do with the person I cared about—just so I could maybe one day get to spend more time doing the same? Why couldn’t I just cut out all the crap I didn’t care about, and do that now?
That sounds about right.
Hey Chris. Sounds just about right to me too.
I’m glad that line resonated with you and thanks for stopping by. It’s always great getting feedback from a fellow blogger.
I think a lot of the time, a couple just gets lumped together. But as you and I know, that’s not the case at all. It’s two separate people (probably even more polarization when it comes to opposite genders) that have made the choice to be together and live a life of mutual compromise. It gets complex. It gets complicated. But like you mention so eloquently, it’s “the togetherness, unification, and shared intention” that makes everything worthwhile.
I’ll be honest, I don’t get to read nor consume as many blogs as I’d like due to my career and lack of time, but from the Twitter periphery, it looks like you and Jenni are true role models for how a successful FI life can be lived. Keep up the good work on the blog.
And hey, always remember, you guys are sitting where I want to be (and so many envious others)… hahaha. Something had to of gone pretty right to get there.
Thanks for the candid feedback and hope you guys have a great rest of your summer.
Loved this. As a single dude I am very selfish with my financial decisions, which include not giving/donating as much as I should. My theory is that I want to put on my own oxygen mask first, and upon reaching FI, will be in a better position to help others while not worrying about my own situation.
For couples, it seems rare that they run parallel career paths. One might choose to continue working (and enjoying work) while the other might clearly want out of the rat race. The opportunity to help one another along the way is what defines the partnership.
Nothing wrong with self-preservation.
I’d get calls from my undergrad alma mater once I graduated asking for donations. Each time, I’d tell them the same thing. “I have student loans. I still owe you guys money. The day I pay off my loans is the day I’ll contemplate giving you more money.”
Take care of your priorities first as you’re doing, and worry about the rest later.
Thank you for sharing your post. It is so well written and I completely understand what you mean about following the FIRE path in a relationship versus solo. Making decisions that will pave the way for the future in any relationship is difficult. Now throw in following a different kind of path and it’s even harder.
I always say communicate to keep a healthy relationship. Even in a good one, that can be easier said than done. Thank you for the reminder 🙂
Thanks for the kind words Jenni and slapping down a comment. Not sure I agree with you on the well written part, hahaha… we all just throw some shit out there and see what sticks. But any time someone can connect or relate, it makes it all worth it to share what little snippets of life we’ve lived. So I’m learning to get better at acknowledgement… or at least trying. =)
Relationships aren’t easy, they aren’t simple and they aren’t healthy all the time either. But there’s always a choice – a choice to either give up, or keep on trying… living… progressing… growing… whatever it may be. They also take a shit ton of work because both partners are continuously changing. A relationship at 25 is entirely different at 35 and 45 and so on. But if we can learn to communicate, like you mention, almost any gap can be bridged.
It’s like that old saying, “it takes two to Tango.” You can have all the intention and effort in the world thrown into a relationship one end, but if both parties don’t want to put in the effort, it’s always doomed to fail.
That “freedom for another” is what brought me into doing FI work. In my case, it was for my wife, and any children we became responsible for. That I had to be free-enough first was a motivating detail. 🙂 That I can incrementally make freedom happen, for each of us, continues to be a bonus.
We’re not FI in the classic sense of having life supported solely from investment income. (We might never be, as you’ll see in a moment. 😉 ) However, we’ve made extra time for the daughters, fostered a niece, and supported multiple projects we’d not have had the chance to had we needed to *stay* dual-income throughout. The older daughter graduated college early and debt-free; her “grub-stake” for setting up her household awaits. The younger daughter and the niece are still in high-school, and we support them in their growth how we can. And my wife struggles to focus down to a manageable number of projects — been trying to demonstrate to her that “smaller and one at a time until done” gives more real progress than “scatter shot”. Work in progress on process, still. Ah well.
I’m pretty much in a similar place as you right now Joseph, although it seems more years behind. The decision was to have my wife free up her life and leave a toxic job, with most likely fostering following (which we’re almost finally approved – there will be a post someday on all of this). That’s awesome you’ve done it yourself! Then hopefully as you say, I’ll be “free enough” and then “incrementally make more freedom happen.” Until working can fall away and the investments take over. Maybe it happens, maybe it never does. Don’t know.
But the goal is to try and improve a little every day and live the best life I can right now. No waiting. Deal with life as it comes and make the most of it.
No reason why we can’t start doing what we love right now. Hence, taking a risk, starting a blog, and finding a whole new world of people online that I never knew existed.
People just like yourself Joseph.
Thanks for the insightful comment and best of luck with that “incremental freedom.”
Appreciate the topic as I have been seeing another angle with regards to married FI path people that scares me. I have always wondered if the FI path leads to a more examined life in general. And when FI is reached for one or both spouses that this examined life leads to diverging paths.
Like workers friends that are friends because they are fighting the same fight at work. Once the common thread holding the friendship goes away so does the friendship. I’ve wondered if this is same for the FI crowd and marriage. Once the drive to FI is over does the divorce risk go up. Yes a big reach but it plays in the back of my mind.
Lots of FI people end up divorced. Money Mustache, Living a Fi, fates on fire. It actually scares me that extra time on someone’s hands leads down paths I don’t want to go on. No fault of the people. Just time and diverging wants, desires when financially free.
I have two thoughts on this one. The first is that divorce in FI plays out just like divorce in any other area. Meaning whether you divorce because you are now an empty nester, left the job, aren’t as busy, etc. Pick whatever you want, FI is no different. When life priorities shift, or there is a significant life event that makes these shifting priorities more visual, people will separate. Working towards FI isn’t mutually exclusive with this.
The second is, people change. The older I get, the more I understand marriage/relationships, need to be worked on constantly in order to succeed. So as people age, if they change individually and don’t communicate well, I think that can easily lead to divorce. Plus if you’re older it might be easier splitting with greater assets and more freedom. Then again, maybe not.
It’s an interesting thought exercise. But to me, if the marriage has good communication, honesty and both spouses put in the same effort, covering those basics usually lead to good outcomes.