How many times have you heard a blogger say, “everyone and anyone can reach financial independence?” Or even better, “the world would be such a great place if everyone were financially independent.”
Quite a bit, right?
And maybe this is you. Maybe these are your exact thoughts.
Kind of like the American Dream. Rags to riches. Put in enough blood, sweat, equity and tears and the world is your oyster. You can accomplish anything. You are your own limitation.
Does something like that sound familiar?
True? Half-true? A flimsy semi-truth peeling off like an old coat of paint concealing something much darker, more sinister lurking beneath?
Hmmmmmm.
Maybe? Maybe not?
Spread FI to the masses like a new vaccine to cure the disease of unhappiness. What could possibly go wrong?
However, I’m going to ask you to play out a little exercise with me. I’m going to propose that you just think outside the box a little bit more today than yesterday.
Is that really what you want?
I mean, let’s just jump down the rabbit hole for a minute for shits and giggles. What would that look like when you hear someone squawking that financial independence is “fundamentally right” and it shouldn’t be a choice, it should be an obligation.
Because do we really want a world in which everyone is financially independent? Would that even make sense?
Maybe automatons are just what the doctor ordered?
What would happen if everyone could be doing what they want, when they want, freely? Would that even work? Is that even a realistic idea? Do grocery shelves still get stocked on time? Will my Amazon boxes stop showing up on my doorstep? Do maids or shitty cleaning jobs become extinct?
How about customer service? (Which probably already is dead by the way, but a guy can try.) If everyone had FU money and could tell you what was on their mind 24/7, I bet the service industry goes to shit. Hahaha.
You get my point, the farther we get into this, the more we see how the system is dependent on its inputs – those inputs relying on the assumption that people will not be financially independent and need jobs.
But could it happen?
Why can’t everyone do their dream job simultaneously? Then we can argue about the definition of “work” just as often as we argue about the definition of “retirement.”
So here we go… Poof! Everyone is now FI in the entire world.
If this were to happen (and keep in my mind I’m limited by only so many words here so I’m keeping to the big picture for the sake of brevity), there are two angles we need to take a look at:
- Economics/systematically
- Socially/the human element
Let’s start with the economics of this Shangri-la scenario.
Without money, without a pecking order, how do you figure out who does what? Who will now do the dirty jobs? Because let’s be honest, not all work is created equal. Some of us have grown fat and lazy (in both a physical and mental sense) lounging on the pillows of a privileged white-collar knowledge-based economy and employment structure.
When you break it down into its most basic function, work and money are essentially control. Just like school is basically day care for kids (honestly what did you really learn in school?) Society wants people busy doing things so that we don’t have more time on our hands to realize the strong can take from the weak. We like to put into place intersubjective realities such as laws and rules in order to pretend there is an overarching system of control.
But occasionally, when we really think about it, we realize it doesn’t exist, but then we forget the next moment, because our lives are busy, and someone must pay the bills.
Take the US Capitol Building uprising at the beginning of this year as an example. Who would have thought that would ever happen? However, all it was, was a simple math problem playing out on television. If you have enough people that want something, then you can take it. There are more people than cops. That’s why mobs are so scary, once they get started, it’s hard to stop.
Now, let’s look at the human element.
A lot of bloggers that preach everyone should be financially independent, are surrounded by people just like them. All their readers think the same and cheer on every post as being another nugget of golden wisdom.
Unless they are an extremely popular blog, I’m talking one or maybe two people out there, no blogger is interacting with people of opposite views that regularly. Which makes perfect sense. People who like what you write will read it. Those that don’t, won’t.
But, this kind of like-minded thinking can easily lull us to sleep.
I like to think the average man/woman is a good person. But I’m not naïve. There are a lot of selfish people out there that only care about themselves. What happens when all these people start doing whatever they want whenever they want?
That actually starts to get scary real fucking quick.
If you’re a normal reader of this blog, then you know that I’m not long on the human race. Hahahaha. I wish I were. I really wish I could believe. But I can’t. We will fuck this up somehow and end up killing ourselves off.
Maybe it’s nuclear war, maybe it’s AI, maybe it’s some new virus, or maybe it’s some crazy Sci-Fi shit that hasn’t been thought of yet.
We are just too destructive of creatures. War is our go-to, not peace. Compromise has never been our strong point. Just look at how divisive our own nation has become. Instead of open discussion it’s become a debate about good and evil. Each side thinks the other is the devil while the middle looks on with disgust.
Do we really want all of these people interacting freely with each other?
Ummmmmmm… I don’t have the answer, but financial independence for the masses ain’t looking so hot to me. Maybe most of these people are better off being controlled and working into their seventies so that they don’t fuck shit up for the rest of us.
And then there’s a third element that I didn’t mention before – a lot of people like to be told what to do.
The FI bubble arrogantly believes everyone wants to be doing all these new things, become an entrepreneur, be an alpha start-up maven.
But no. That isn’t everyone and not even the majority. There are a lot of people that just like to be doing something. Anything. Give them a mundane job, a schedule and they’re happy. They’re just content to do the same thing for the next 30-40 years of their lives.
What’s so wrong with that?
What makes you happy might not make your neighbor happy.
So, I’ve seen over the years a lot of the detailed arguments that debunk if everyone were financially independent than the economy wouldn’t fall apart. I’m still on the fence with everything myself. I do think that universal basic income would be a start towards experimenting along these lines. I’m neither for nor against – but if the right system could be implemented to benefit humanity, I’m always all ears.
But I’m curious what you guys think out there (already knowing the answer that I hypocritically stated above, being a blogger that lives in my own bubble, this is probably one of the worst places to pose this question… hahaha!)
However, I’ll leave you with one final food for thought.
The more I think of the word fire, in a literal sense – chemicals/substances combusting or burning – the more analogous I find the term with the “FIRE Movement.” Used in the right way, fire (the element that is) can be used for warmth or to clear a field of crops, it has immense utility. However, play with it recklessly and you can be burned, maimed or killed. I don’t think the “FIRE Movement” is any different. Look at your finances carefully, spend responsibly, manage debt and invest wisely, then life works out. But if you fall into a blogger’s rabbit hole, believe marketing ploys and insincere coaching, quit an amazing job because you had one bad day, move into a van with no plan – then it can burn you just the same.
Remember to look through the flames to the other side.
Because FIRE isn’t for everyone. Nor should it be.
And use that newfound power at your fingertips wisely.
-Q-FI
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“With great power, comes great responsibility.” – Spiderman
“These people have been slaves. They were freed by the actions of others. Of course freedom would scare them. Of course they would seek a new master.” – Malazan Book of the Fallen
So what do you think dear reader? Should FI be something commoditized and fed to the masses with glee or is FI really a superpower that should only be wielded by the privileged. Is there too much power in giving everyone the ability of FI? Would the world stop working or would people eventually figure it out? What does your perfect nirvana FI world look like?
Excellent and thought-provoking points! To use the cheap analogy, a controlled FIRE is a good thing, but if FIRE spreads too far… it burns everything.
I have often shared your view on humans destroying ourselves–there’s plenty of history to support that. But I’ll buy the dip on humanity while I’m here and hope I don’t get left holding the bag haha.
Hahaha… you summed up in one line, “a controlled FIRE is a good thing, but if FIRE spreads too far… it burns everything,” my entire wordy paragraph way better. That’s a great line IF.
I’m right there with you on humanity, I hope it lasts, which I’m pretty sure it will at least for my lifetime, but overall I’m just not optimistic. However, in the meantime, I’ll take advantage of all the perks and wish for the best… ha!
Once I read Sapiens and some other books, and you look at our history, we’re just one bizarre species.
Ha–funny, I’m halfway through Sapiens. A little dense on the religion stuff but powered through and it’s picking up again. Very interesting read. Reminds me of my Bukowski phase that completely warped my worldview for a while.
Wow Q-FI, there are so many interesting points you bring up in the piece, I’m not sure where to even start.
I’ve been able to experience a few situations in life with people who had no real fear of getting fired or had an incentive to get paid more money to do a good job. The Navy and a trip to Cuba back in 2012 are what come to mind, and it wasn’t pleasant. Like you say, without money dictating an order, things could get out of hand very quickly…sort of how I imagine a post-apocalyptic world would be, every man for himself. If money wasn’t an incentive, you would need a strong central government to keep control, ala communism. Communism might give a hint of what this world you describe may look like if money were out of the equation–without the freedom part, of course. In our current system, our poor have just enough to stay placated, and our “officials” make just too much be openly corrupted. Widespread FIRE would destroy this balance.
I do think the FI message should be spread as much as possible and democratized so it can be a choice if the individual chooses to work for it. There is no more power in sharing FI than as letting people know that they have the option to become an entrepreneur or pursue education and become a “fill in the blank” high paying career. If they have the dedication and the intellectual acumen is another story. Everyone should have the option to try and possibly fail. Humans tend to take the easy road when they can, and I believe laziness has been the impetus for much of humanity’s achievements over the centuries. FIRE is definitely not the easy road.
I really need to read Sapiens as you mention in your comment response to IF. This is why I need some FI in my life, to catch up on my reading list. Awesome post!
Definitely check out Sapiens, it is well worth the read. It starts a little slow but picks up. Yuval is a big picture thinker. It gets pretty tripping when he starts talking about humans becoming A-mortal (they can’t die by illness or any disease from technology advancement, but you aren’t immortal because you can die in a car crash or be shot, etc.). Crazy things to think about. What happens to society then? What happens if only the rich can afford to be A-mortal?
Anyway, even though the world will never become FI, it’s fun to think about and play around with “what if.”
When it comes to the FI message, I’m a little torn. I think if it can be spread in the “right way” – and who the fuck am I to say there is a right way – but meaning in an unbiased and truthful manner then I agree. However, I think the reality is the message gets spread more as get quick rich schemes by bloggers marketing coaching and life style design classes instead of stuff that will really help someone. It’s almost all click bait bullshit on the surface and I’m not sure how many people have the time or motivation to dive down into what would really benefit them.
Who knows… it will be interesting to see where all of this stuff is 5 years from now.
Reminds me of a History of Economics class I had in college. The interpretation of Marx which I subscribe too and even wrote a post on is a post technology future. A situation where we peak out on technological change and workers are replaced completely by automation. An interpretation of his writing is that communism can only form and work at that point. However that transition will potentially be cataclysmic. And honestly like you I wonder if the human race can handle that level of idleness collectively. I’m hopeful that point is not in my lifetime.
I think we’re good in our lifetimes. Or we better be! Haha. Or at least that’s how I choose to think about it.
Work keeps people busy, keeps society buzzing. Take that away and it will be an interesting world to live in. I don’t think a lot of people would do well either with infinite idle time. But some will prosper and others might stagnate. Or maybe tons of new activities are invented in the future. That’s why it’s fun to play around with the possibilities.
Or maybe as you point out, automation and/or communism takes form…
this is why i refuse to join the fi club or most any club. like any potentially good thing i just think a person should take the elements useful to them and leave the rest. take passion projects, for instance. what a bunch of steaming bullshit! my passion projects was chasing skirts and loose women around new orleans but you can’t do that stuff forever. people change over time and if you are like me you go from interesting and iconoclastic to boring.
nowadays i’m happy to do my 40 hours and collect a check and take my 5-6 weeks paid time off. the early retirement part was more for me 25 years ago but then i got tired. all that being said feel free to use the contact form for a free 15 minute coaching session so i can hook you for the follow up work.
Hahahaha… yes, I have gone from interesting to boring as well.
The more I watch the FI club progress, the less I relate. Not sure I ever subscribed to the club as well. You find what helps you or what people interest you and keep an open mind. That’s about it. Once I get tired of writing this whole blog thing will probably pitter out and most likely be taken down.
The one size-fits all FI package usually has selling strings attached to it. What’s your 15-minute rate? Hahahaha.
I’m with you, take what’s useful and leave the rest. The you’re-going-to-change-the-world-hype is usually trying to sneak your wallet out of your back pocket.
BTW… I don’t think there could ever be a club that encapsulates you… ha! You’re too dynamic for any box!
First, I’m with you on the sentiments toward humanity. We’ll absolutely fuck ourselves out of existence. Anywho, I also agree that FI is not and should not be for everyone, both economically and socially. As a possibility, I’m glad it exists and exceedingly glad that I am. However I don’t espouse that it’s the “bees knees” and a must for everyone (or anyone for that matter).
That said, I do actively encourage others to be more financially prudent and attempt to construct a life where they are in control of their finances, not the other way around. But the whole world as FI would be an abject catastrophe for sure.
Your comment is pretty much spot on and sums up all my views as well. Living in a bubble has its perks. Haha.
All I needed were those two paragraphs instead of my entire post… haha!
I never really understand those kinds of blogs who will happily proclaim their way is the “right way”.
To me, there is no right way and the whole point of “FIRE” as a collective, if there is one, is simply to encourage people to think for themselves. To realise they do have options, even if they are not always the ones they want….
But it took me a while to realise that an awful lot of people really don’t like thinking for themselves. It’s a big responsibility and only yourself to blame if/when things don’t turn out the way you wanted. That doesn’t work so well for a lot of folk, preferring an external target…
The world would be a very very dull place if we were all the same. One of the reasons I love to travel is the breadth of new perspectives you meet. What seems reasonable in one country entirely inappropriate in another. It reminds me to always remember my own view is just that – only a perspective based on what I know now…always learning and hopefully improving….like a fine wine….maybe….🤣
I like that, “encourage people to think for themselves.”
That’s a good point you make, that if you take action and fail, you can only blame yourself, so a lot of people avoid it. I haven’t quite thought about it that way before, but it makes a lot of sense. People do like to shift accountability to external targets.
Hahaha… and yes, the world would suck if everyone were the same.
Great insight Michelle!
To paraphrase Jim Morrison the future is uncertain and the end is always near. I tell you though having found FI has given me the freedom at work where I spend a majority of my time to do my job, but not care sooo much. I still do though, because that’s my personality, but having finances somewhat under control helps in my thoughts whether I should stay or go. Oh, today marks 31 years clean and sober (June 10, 1990)
That’s awesome and an insane amount of time! Congrats bud! You probably had plenty of ups and downs over those 31 years, but your life was probably a lot better than if you had been using. Fucking awesome man!
So the funny thing with me and FU money, is that I’m just as stressed. It’s like sure, I can leave but then I have to find another job and then my FI timeline is pushed back. So although I have it, and flexibility, I still stress myself out more than I should. And I know that’s just perspective, but it’s hard to press the off button on altering your expectations for yourself. Hahaha.
Oh well. I guess it is a good problem to have.
As I read this post, I thought of a bunch of artists I knew during my days in NYC. I was the only one in my group who held a full-time day job. In their eyes, I worked for the devil. They even went so far as to say (and believe) that anyone who held a corporate job had a dead soul and refused to listen to any of my arguments to the contrary. I didn’t fall into that category because I was actually an artist. Then again, so were many of my corporate colleagues. We just had no other way of paying our bills.
The difference between my corporate creative colleagues and my artist friends was that none of my artist friends had much ambition, responsibility, or drive. Many were supported by wealthy parents, so they worked one or two bartending shifts a week and smoked a lot of pot on their days off, accomplishing little to nothing most of the time. They ran up credit card debt and rationalized by arguing it was the “banks” money or corporate money, so it never hurt anyone to not pay the bills.
I didn’t live like these people and couldn’t relate to them. I imagine there are plenty of people who read our blogs and can’t relate to us too. Most people won’t adopt these principles because they value other things, like lavish vacations, Range Rovers, and weekly manicures. But they also keep our economy going.
It’s funny to see how much my own opinion of this movement has evolved over the past few years. I no longer wish to retire at 45, nor do I wish to live as frugally as I once did. That’s over. I’m not at all a reckless spender, but I also don’t think saving every last penny to call it quits prematurely on a great career during my prime earning years is the answer. Everyone is different and that’s okay. Sometimes I feel like this movement is selling a bill of goods, yet there’s also so much great advice within it.
Ah, those who are supported by the bank of mum and dad, but never acknowledge it. Or not even acknowledge it, but would never even be able to see it. The older I get the more thankful I am that my perspective has broadened. If you know you live in a relative bubble, then at least you have enough awareness to question and know it exists.
To your how much your FIRE opinion has changed comment – I think we’re always changing this much but it’s hard to see. Bloggers like you and I have a very unique situation, in that by writing about a topic or topics, we’ve created this written history that we can look back on and analyze. Because of this, it’s a lot easier for us to see the change in us. Others, have more difficulty or even we ourselves in other areas of our lives that we aren’t chronicling.
I’m the same as you, although in a much shorter writing time, my views on retiring early have changed immensely. And the best way to see this is observing what I was writing from when I first started. Kind of cool in one sense, and scary in another. Hahaha.
But it took me some time to realize that there will never be a static me and I can only guess at what I might like/value a year from now, but I really don’t know. All I’m doing is guessing. So my best course of action, is don’t fight anything, keep adapting and try to enjoy the ride as it plays out.
This reminds me of something I saw on Twitter – a younger blogger was kind of throwing a temper tantrum because she said she would never have kids and someone older commented that you never know, she might change her mind later on in her life (commented in nice way I should add). The blogger couldn’t believe the audacity of the commenter to write that and flipped out. I saw it and thought, yep, that’s the thinking of a young and certain mind. You never know how you are going to change. Sure, maybe she’s right and never has kids. But I’ve had many friends that said in their late twenties and thirties, they would never have a kid, and now in their forties changed their mind and are having one. It just goes to show you don’t know at 30 what you’ll want at 40. Never say never.
Thanks for the great insight and story.